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Young Snape = LOVE

Holy shit. Who reached into my brain and pulled out this kid as the freaking IMAGE of young Severus?



Even out of costume he showed definite promise - he resembles Alan Rickman, he has a hint of the smirk, and he has these marvelous wounded James Dean eyes...the perfect combo of angry and vulnerable - but made up...WOW. He looks exactly as I imagined him, exactly.

This almost makes up for the truly horrific casting of Michael Gambon.

Almost.

Comments

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abromeds
May. 25th, 2007 05:40 pm (UTC)
OH. EM. GEE.

You're right; he's perfect. Now if only it turns out he can ACT, and that the director doesn't SUCK BALLS at handling actors... well. We may actually be in danger of having a true and poignant scene in a Harry Potter movie. Let it be so!

And I'm in the minority about Michael Gambon; I kinda like him! :D Most of his WTF moments are, I think, the fault of the directors they've chosen. Who's directing this one? Somebody new?
hb_princess
May. 26th, 2007 05:38 pm (UTC)
We may actually be in danger of having a true and poignant scene in a Harry Potter movie.

Well, let's not get carried away or anything. ;P

I do think we may be in luck acting-wise with this kid (okay, he's probably not a kid to you - he's 20/21 and therefore a baby to moi xD). Seems he followed Rickman all around the set, watching him walk and talk, trying to get his expressions down, etc, until finally Rickman invited him to sit down and talk some Snape. :D I thought that was pretty impressive, putting that much interest and effort into "getting it right" for just one scene. (Though he did say the PTB hinted they might need him again for Deathly Hallows - and *squee!* for my Snape-Was-At-Godric's-Hollow-the Night-the-Potters-Died theory! XD)

Most of his WTF moments are, I think, the fault of the directors they've chosen. Who's directing this one? Somebody new?

"WTF moments." Heh. Heh heh. I take it you read my rant about GoF? ;)

And, yeah - *sigh* - I guess you do have a point. The rotating directors are a huge part of the problem (and Steve Kloves, too, but don'tgetmestartedonTHAT.) As some reviewer or another said, here they've got all these fabulous, biggest-names-in-Britain actors in every part, and none of them ever get to show WHY they became fabulous big-name actors in the first place. It's maddening.

I don't know who's directing this one, but...meh. I refuse to get my hopes up that he WON'T suck in some completely new and unforeseen way. >:(
abromeds
May. 27th, 2007 05:49 pm (UTC)
*squee!* for my Snape-Was-At-Godric's-Hollow-the Night-the-Potters-Died theory! XD

GAHHHHHHH!!! I just got the most visceral pang of WANT for the seventh book. *breathes in paper bag*

And ooooooh, what a cool anecdote about "the kid" and Rickman. :D Though I hope they tone down the "sypathetic-izing" of Snape that they've done in the movies. Do you agree? I think they've gone overboard in softening him up; or maybe it's more a matter of them not picking the right battles. ? Like, the way to show Snape's "good side" is to, y'know, PROPERLY ADDRESS THE FACT THAT HE FREAKING SPIED ON THE DEATH EATRS, not invent a scene where he awkwardly slithers up to Harry to wish him good luck in a Quidditch match. WTF?!?! But I digress...

here they've got all these fabulous, biggest-names-in-Britain actors in every part, and none of them ever get to show WHY they became fabulous big-name actors in the first place. It's maddening.

Amen. The directors have really been just TERRIBLE. Soooooo many scenes that just... didn't... work. Ugh.

Steve Kloves, huh? Oh, you mean the guy who decided that the key to translating Prisoner of Azkaban to the silver screen would be to EDIT OUT THE CLIMAX OF THE NOVEL?!?!?!!

Yeah, I'm not fan, either. ;P Though he did adapt the screenplay for Wonder Boys, one of my all-time favorite movies. Apparently he's not doing the screenplay for Phoenix, though. But you're right; we'd best not get our hopes up. :P

"WTF moments." Heh. Heh heh. I take it you read my rant about GoF? ;)

Hee, I did indeed! But I still maintain it's primarily the fault of the directors (and costume designers!) that Dumbledore looks pretty fucking stupid most of the time.
hb_princess
May. 29th, 2007 04:22 am (UTC)
GAHHHHHHH!!! I just got the most visceral pang of WANT for the seventh book. *breathes in paper bag*

*laughs* I know, right?!? It's, like, "Accio Book Seven! Right fucking NOW!" ;D I'm starting to get the itch again BIG-TIME. Agh, the suspense...

"The kid" - I hope I didn't hurt your feelings by calling him that. *winces* I often completely forget how young you are, seeing as how we share a brain and all. Not that being young means one can't be brilliant and intuitive and insightful, of course...not that I'm saying you are all those things because we agree 99% of the time...I'll shut up now before I put any more of my foot in my mouth! ;P

Um...anyway. His name is Alec Hopkins, so...yeah. We'll just call him Alec from now on, okay? Yes. Okay. :D

Though I hope they tone down the "sypathetic-izing" of Snape that they've done in the movies. Do you agree?

What do you think? xP

I don't have any problem with them making teenage Snape sympathetic - actually, if he doesn't come across as sympathetic in that scene, they've blown it yet again - but about Adult Snape? I couldn't agree more. One of my biggest gripes about Movie!Snape is that he's so DILUTED. The braintrust at Mugglenet (and Wikipedia) seem to think they've toned him down so much because the character as written is "too intense" for younger viewers, but...who the hell do they think these books were targeted at in the first place? Hey, Warner Brothers, the dude's gonna MURDER the headmaster in your next film - how's THAT for intense? xP

Like, the way to show Snape's "good side" is to, y'know, PROPERLY ADDRESS THE FACT THAT HE FREAKING SPIED ON THE DEATH EATRS, not invent a scene where he awkwardly slithers up to Harry to wish him good luck in a Quidditch match. WTF?!?!

GAH!! I KNOW!! Or how 'bout an invented scene wherein he bodily THROWS himself between the chilluns and a frickin' werewolf?!? Hello??? o.O (And it's not that I don't think Book!Snape would try to protect the kids - hell, he has - it's just that I don't think he'd be so damned Dudley Do-Right about it. Ugh.)

You're EXACTLY right - they don't pick his battles correctly at ALL. Rowling has provided plenty of moments to counter the nasty-bastard/crazed-psycho image of Snape; they don't need to invent any, and they can't improve on what she's done. I was much more impressed by, say, Snape's shoving his Dark Mark in Fudge's face - unbidden, thank you - than I could EVER be by some of these calculated "he's not so bad, kids, just a little cranky" semi-heroic moments they give him on-screen.

And don't even get me GOING on PoA...!!!! That was such a GUTTING disappointment. And I wanted to see Snape's psychotic flip-out in the hospital wing almost more than I want to breathe. *sigh*

But I still maintain it's primarily the fault of the directors (and costume designers!) that Dumbledore looks pretty fucking stupid most of the time.

Well...maybe. But I do know that Gambon said that he sees Dumbledore as a 150-something hippie. So I'm still holding him accountable for the dirty fingernails. And the goddamned beard-scrunchie. xP

Ah, shit. You know what we need? A potter_rants community! xP
abromeds
May. 29th, 2007 07:32 pm (UTC)
Oh babe! Honestly, I didn't give your "kid" remark a second thought! :D I can see why you thought it might have bugged me, though, because I put it in quotes in my reply. I just did that because I didn't know his name and just figured I'd call him what you called him, y'know, for continuity's sake, or, bleh, WHATEVER. ;P But yeah, seriously. Didn't bother me in the least. :D

And *blush,* thank you so much for the compliments, hon! :D I do feel flattered that you forget my age, because, well... hang political correctness, youth and immaturity DO often go together! As the current demographics of JHP would seem to indicate. ;) Hee!

if he doesn't come across as sympathetic in that scene, they've blown it yet again

SHHHHH!!! Don't jinx it!!! ;D Urgh, yes, I agree. Snape just needs to OOZE vulnerability in that scene. I mean, yeah, he's an angry festering little adolescent punk, but GAH. My friggin eyes teared up when I first read that flashback. She did such a BRILLIANT job. Young!Snape is just heartbreaking to me. "Like a plant kept in the dark." A brilliant, sensitive, creative-genius plant! Who's staggering potential to be BEAUTIFUL was cruelly squelched by the people in his life! Poor, poor Joh--er, ah, Severus. *shifty eyes* ;D

Actually, I was thinking about the comment you made at HQ about Paul's Occlumens-/Death Eater-potential, and now I'm beginning to see Snape as a sort of super-cool John/Paul hybrid! (ZOMG how glad am I to be able to talk about such a WEIRD comparison with someone. We are such nerds. Or something. xP)

Like, he's got the obvious John-traits, of course: the anger, the snark, the SHITTY upbringing, the incisive brilliance, etc. But MINUS the loudmouth persona, the swagger and bluster and loose-cannon, heart-on-the-sleeve stuff. Substitute that lot for Paul's control, his cold, calculating, deliberatly manipulative side, his pragmatic ambition. Eh?

Oh Snape. No wonder you are so darkly sexy. ;D

it's just that I don't think he'd be so damned Dudley Do-Right about it. Ugh.

*rolls* Seriously, you are just the fucking BEST. XD That was the example that actually sprang first to my mind, but I couldn't think of a good way to phrase it. :D

"too intense" for younger viewers

And you know, I can see that, because a cruel, austere, bullying authoritative adult probably WOULD be more frightening to kids than any obvious, scary villain. You know, that starts playing with their trust and stuff... but OTOH, I think that's a big part of the point JKR is trying to make here in these books! Part of growing up is realizing that adults are fallible; that sometimes (or often, for kids who deal with abuse) adults hurt kids because the ADULT has a problem, not because the kid deserves it. I mean... the Dursleys are pretty freaking "intense" too! Sheesh!

JKR is dealing with a wide spectrum of this concept; the Dursleys pretty much suck, though she's touched on the idea (in HPB) that Dudley is a product of his upbringing, and it seems likely that Petunia might be made a little more sympathetic in DH. On the other end, Dumbledore is benign and wise and loving, but he still makes mistakes. Snape's in the middle (again).

I was much more impressed by, say, Snape's shoving his Dark Mark in Fudge's face - unbidden, thank you - than I could EVER be by some of these calculated "he's not so bad, kids, just a little cranky" semi-heroic moments they give him on-screen.

Exactly. They've been so focussed on making him "cuddley" that they've completely neglected to make him impressive.

I do know that Gambon said that he sees Dumbledore as a 150-something hippie.

Oh dear. I appreciate the fact that he had to distance his characterization of DD from Harris's, but... DAMN.

Wheeee! This is fun! :D
hb_princess
May. 30th, 2007 04:37 am (UTC)
Hee! It IS fun...I haven't blue-skied about Snape and Potterverse with anyone but John (yes, to answer your long-ago question, my hubby is also a John! ;P)in a long LONG time. :D I moseyed on over to Mugglenet about a week ago, and - God! It's been almost two years and everyone's STILL having the same damned arguments. Don't get me wrong, there's lots and lots of truly BRILLIANT people and theories and whatnot there, but the stupidity quotient is awfully high in counterpoint as well. It's actually rather...draining.

My friggin eyes teared up when I first read that flashback. She did such a BRILLIANT job. Young!Snape is just heartbreaking to me. "Like a plant kept in the dark." A brilliant, sensitive, creative-genius plant! Who's staggering potential to be BEAUTIFUL was cruelly squelched by the people in his life!

"Like a plant kept in the dark." Oh, God, I LOVED that line! And she suggested so many powerful images for me with just the barest description -his "spidery," twitchy awkwardness made me picture a kid who's almost cringing as he moves, like he just wants to be as invisible as possible, or he's just waiting for the inevitable insult or blow. And when Potter and Black had him on the ground and he was crawling trying to reach his wand...ugh. It was like they were kicking a stray DOG. :( Needless to say, I got VERY emotionally wound up in that scene, too. As in homicidal. *ahem*

now I'm beginning to see Snape as a sort of super-cool John/Paul hybrid! (ZOMG how glad am I to be able to talk about such a WEIRD comparison with someone. We are such nerds. Or something. xP)

Like, he's got the obvious John-traits, of course: the anger, the snark, the SHITTY upbringing, the incisive brilliance, etc. But MINUS the loudmouth persona, the swagger and bluster and loose-cannon, heart-on-the-sleeve stuff. Substitute that lot for Paul's control, his cold, calculating, deliberatly manipulative side, his pragmatic ambition. Eh?


OMG, you ARE brilliant!!! The much-discussed hypothetical John/Paul love-child is, in fact...Severus Snape! Holy shit!!!! ;D No wonder we love him so much. (And yes, we are nerds, but I love it, don't you? xP)

And, see? ALL of this tragedy and death and nonsense could have been avoided had Severus only joined a rock band instead of the Death Eaters. :D
hb_princess
May. 30th, 2007 04:40 am (UTC)
OMG, my fucking comment was too long. Yeah, you think I'm enjoying this a little? ;D

I mean... the Dursleys are pretty freaking "intense" too! Sheesh!

You know, it's always kind of bothered me how cavalier JKR seems about the abuse Harry suffered. I mean...you don't really FEEL it, you know? B/c she treats it (especially in the earliest books) almost like a joke...like she uses it for comic relief. Or something? I don't know. It just doesn't seem like she stresses enough that the Dursleys AREN'T just doddering Muggles, petty-mean but ultimately harmless, but are in fact emotionally ABUSING this child in their care. There's ONE scene during the Occlumency lessons where Snape pulls from Harry a memory of himself about five years old, watching Dudley ride his new bike and "burning with jealousy." THAT one scene brought tears to my eyes. I could actually see - for the first time! - how genuinely AWFUL it must be to be a child in that situation, being made to constantly feel like you're a burden, an imposition, an outsider...Jesus. As we've said on MN many times, Snape and Harry have a lot more in common than they think.

Snape's in the middle (again).

This reminds me...I've been thinking about it ever since you said agreed that morally and emotionally, Snape is the halfway point between Voldemort and Harry, and you said "halfway b/t V. and Harry's not saying much." But the more I think about it, the more I think Snape is the most realistically developed of the three. What I mean is, if we posit that all three of them came from neglectful and/or actively abusive childhoods, isn't Snape the one who acts the most like he should? A lot of kids are abused, but most of them don't turn out as preternaturally "sunny", as open to love and as capable of compassion as Harry - and I think it's safe to say most of them don't turn out to be murderous megalomaniacs hellbent on world domination, either. ;P I think most of them turn out (to varying degrees) like Snape - bitter, angry, emotionally damaged, socially stunted, but still human enough to give a shit if, say, some stupid kid falls off his broomstick in the middle of a Quidditch match. Or if some murderous megalomaniac wants to take over the world. Eh?

Your turn. :D
abromeds
Jun. 1st, 2007 04:54 pm (UTC)
You know, it's always kind of bothered me how cavalier JKR seems about the abuse Harry suffered.

I don't mind it too much, because one of the coolest things about the series is how it progresses with each book; everything become more emotional, multi-dimensional, complex... more real. That said, I think it would have been better if she'd developed the impact of the D's cruelty more gradually, instead of making them children's lit stock-characters for the first four books and then suddenly making their behavior have a clear effect on Harry's psyche ("the boys who used to make his life hell," etc.)

But then again, I dunno. Maybe it was intentional. OotP is extremely dark; Harry himself goes through a million changes, and maybe one of those is that the treatment he's received finally REALLY sinks in for him, so naturally it's the first glimpse we get of it, too.

Still... it just seems to me that her development of the D's doesn't match up with her development of everything else. It's an incongruity which does bother me.

I think most of them turn out (to varying degrees) like Snape - bitter, angry, emotionally damaged, socially stunted, but still human enough to give a shit

Absolutely. I also suspect that Snape's flaws are terribly exacerbated by his profession. WHY is this man a teacher!??!! It's about the absolute WORST fit for his psyche and temperament. I hope JKR addresses that, because there really SHOULD be some reason for that. I hope it comes out as a major plot-point in DH.

Anyway... yes, I agree Harry is pretty much a freak, even more so than Voldemort, IMO! ;P Brilliant, tyranical sociopaths DO happen, but for Harry to be a good guy, and VERY capable of forming healthy relationships just boggles the mind. Especially because he was allowed no friends growing up; the ONLY people in his life were horrid. Maybe DD put some sort of emotional-protection charm on him as an infant... or maybe it's just a completely unrealistic characterization. ;P
hb_princess
Jun. 5th, 2007 03:35 am (UTC)
I think it would have been better if she'd developed the impact of the D's cruelty more gradually, instead of making them children's lit stock-characters for the first four books and then suddenly making their behavior have a clear effect on Harry's psyche ("the boys who used to make his life hell," etc.)

Exactly. And maybe she DID want us to "see" it when Harry did, but all it did for me was make me want to throttle the little shit. Seriously. Maybe Harry was too Mary Sunshine in 1-4, but he was a terminally caps-locked pain-in-the-arse in Book 5. Grr.

or maybe it's just a completely unrealistic characterization. ;P

I'll take "completely unrealistic characterizations" for $500, Alex. ;P

Um...I think Snape's a teacher for the same reason Trelawny is - Dumbledore wanted him to be safe from possible reprisals from any stray Death Eaters who might know of his betrayal (and, unlike Trelawny, Snape is actually, you know...competent.) Also, I sorta doubt he was being inundated with job offers after the first war, what with that big old "was a terrorist minion for the Dark Lord" on his resume. xP And I think DD wanted him around for Voldemort's return - Snape's obviously the one who told Dumbly about the Horcruxes in the first place, so I'm sure neither of them believed V. was gone forever.

What I want to know is who ELSE knows (or knew, prior to Snape's "betrayal") that he used to be a DE. The parents were up in arms about a werewolf teaching their kids - I can't imagine they'd be too chuffed about Snape. ???
abromeds
Jun. 14th, 2007 07:22 pm (UTC)
I think Snape's a teacher for the same reason Trelawny is

Oh shut up, you, you... LOGICAL PERSON, you!! ;D Yes, I'm sure you're right... I'm just hoping for something more exciting in addition! Like, he's bound to the school in some magical way, or... or... I don't even know! Even something mooshy like he wanted to hang around Dumbledore. :)

who ELSE knows

You're right! I can't imagine it was known at all outside of the DE's and the members of the OotP. ;P Speaking of DE's, here's a random thought... am I the only one who felt super uncomfortable when Sirius called Snape Lucius' "lapdog???" What the fuck does THAT mean? And do I want to KNOW??! :/

ZOMG 36 DAYS lkjkladkfkaakk!!!! :D :D :D
hb_princess
Jun. 16th, 2007 04:49 am (UTC)
Well, this was a pleasant surprise! :D I was about to e-mail you with a "Hey, is everything okay?"

Even something mooshy like he wanted to hang around Dumbledore. :)

Hee! I'd personally LOVE it to be something as mooshy as that...and I actually believe that was part of it, whether JKR goes into or not. I think Severus had a sincere affection for DD, tempered with the occasional resentment and irritation. And I think Hogwarts was his only true "home."

am I the only one who felt super uncomfortable when Sirius called Snape Lucius' "lapdog???" What the fuck does THAT mean? And do I want to KNOW??! :/

Well, you READ my story! You know how jealous Sirius was of Snape shagging Malfoy! ;P

(And I do have one avid Snape/Malfoy shipper friend who read that line and thought "Lap dog? Lap dances? Hawt Death Eater sex? YAYZ!!!" :D)

Um...okay. I wasn't unduly bothered by that remark. Sirius is always DRASTICALLY misrepresenting the Snape/Marauders dynamic (Snape was always following them around and trying to get them expelled? Oh, those poor innocent boys! *eyeroll*), and the only opprotunity he would have ever had to observe any Severus/Lucius interaction would have been at Hogwarts, when Malfoy was seventh year and Snape a first. No doubt Snape might have latched onto the much older impressive (probably prefect) Lucius as a role model, maybe even a protector. And the writer in me thinks JKR used the "lapdog" reference just so that Snape could respond with his "And speaking of dogs, Black..." retort (which was also, of course, yet ANOTHER warning of danger to yet ANOTHER undeserving and obtuse friend-of-Harry, but we'll let that go. *grumbles*)

That said, we know Lucius and Severus have a history. Umbridge said Malfoy spoke highly of Snape. Snape seemed genuinely concerned for Draco and genuinely moved by Narcissa's pleas for help. Maybe I've read way too much Snucius in my time, but I do believe it was probably Malfoy who first pimped Snape to Voldemort - how else would a poor half-blood come to his attention? I think they're friends (as much as Malfoy can be friends with anyone), friends who find themselves on opposite sides now.

ZOMG 36 DAYS lkjkladkfkaakk!!!! :D :D :D

*Squee!* I know!!! I'm totally geeking. I'm SOOOO excited about this book! I just hope she doesn't go all cheestastic on us with the Snape/Lily thing. And I hope, hope, HOPE against all hope that Snape is the character she decided at the last minute to spare the ax. *crosses fingers, toes, eyes, everything* I'm trying to prepare myself, but I'm going to be devastated if/when he dies.
abromeds
Jun. 26th, 2007 06:09 pm (UTC)
Hey sweetie! Yes, everything is fine; thanks for the concern! I'm in a play at the moment and it opens tomorrow, so, you know, I have no life. ^_^ But I miss you lots!

Is everything all right with you? :( I've been reading back on the comms and haven't seen you 'round... Anyway, lots of love from me to you. :)

Also, I read that Snupin fic you sent me. Gorgeous. Thank you so much for sharing! It was... gah. Such a perfect way to capture the twisted achey darkness of Snape. *le sigh*

the writer in me thinks JKR used the "lapdog" reference just so that Snape could respond with his "And speaking of dogs, Black..." retort

Good point! I can definitely buy that... my own "eeeek" response to the lapdog comment was more because I was picturing Snape and Lucius' relationship post-Hogwarts, when Snape was spying for the Order. It just makes me think that it was necessary for Snape to cowtow/fraternize with Lucius a lot, which is just creepy (not in a sexual way, since JKR would never go there) simply because... I just really hate Lucius. ;P

*crosses fingers, toes, eyes, everything*

Heee! Me too! :D
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